History in the Recipe: In the Kitchen with Yujin

Published on November 7, 2018

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". . . like in different countries, they all have their own style of Chinese food which is not real Chinese food. But they call that, they call that Chinese food."

Chapters

Introduction: Shopping at an Asian Market

Yujin Zhou shows Jessica Brewer and Lillie Mermoud around an Asian supermarket.

Play Segment

Chinese Food in Other Countries

Yujin Zhou talks about cooking in his family and the differences between authentic Chinese food and Chinese food in other countries.

Play Segment

The Hunan Style of Cooking

Jesssica Brewer and Lillie Mermoud describe Hunan cuisine, the history of soy sauce, and the recipe for Yujin’s pork chili.

Play Segment

Cooking Pork Chili with Yujin Zhou and Reflection

Yujin Zhou shows Jessica Brewer and Meri Cashion how to make Hunan-style pork chili, and the interviewers reflect upon what they learned from their interview.

Play Segment

Transcript

[HARWELL GOODWIN DAVIS: He stated that he had been appointed to suggest a
president for Howard College.

EUNICE ROGERS: And so there was a lot of industry in Bessemer when I grew up, a
lot of progressiveness. However, it was still a typical, small, Southern town.

OLIVER BARREAU: To be perfectly honest with you, um, I didn't know what Alabama
was until I set foot in Alabama.

ELIZABETH SLOAN RAGLAND: I was not greeted by hecklers. I was greeted by Martha
Ann Cox.]

MICHELLE LITTLE: Welcome back to Sam.wav. We are your hosts, Michelle Little . . .

CLAIRE DAVIS: --and Claire Davis.

MICHELLE LITTLE: And today we're introducing the next episode in our student-led
miniseries, "History in the Recipe."

CLAIRE DAVIS: We're globetrotting again this week to the Huanan province of
China, the home of student Yujin Zhou. Join us as Jessica Brewer and Lillie
Mermoud ask Yujin about the variation in cuisine across China and reflect on the
difference between Chinese food in China and in the US.

JESSICA BREWER: You are listening to Birmingham Eats, a podcast produced by
���ֽ���'s Food and history class in partnership with ���ֽ���
University Oral Traditions and Recording Initiatives program.

LILLIE MERMOUD: This episode is "In the Kitchen with Yujin," with your hosts
Jessica Brewer and Lillie Mermoud.

[musical interlude]

JESSICA BREWER: So on the day we were going to cook, um, with Yujin, he took us
to Mr. Chen's marketplace, which is a Chinese market here in Birmingham. And
while we were there, Yujin pointed out some things that were from his hometown,
and it was really interesting.

[ambient noises]

YUJIN ZHOU: This one is from my hometown. Oh my god.

(laughter)

YUJIN ZHOU: Hunan, you see? It's from my hometown. It's called hot black bean
but I don't know why they call it that. But anyway.

JESSICA BREWER: It might not be hot to you, but it's probably hot to other
people. Okay.

YUJIN ZHOU: There are other things. Uh-- Let me see.

(foot steps)

YUJIN ZHOU: This is from my hometown too.

JESSICA BREWER: Oh.

YUJIN ZHOU: This means "spicy girl."

(laughter)

JESSICA BREWER: It's called spicy girl?

YUJIN ZHOU: Or "hot girl."

JESSICA BREWER: (laughter) Say it in Chinese.

YUJIN ZHOU: Yeah. Those are from my hometown too, Hunan Province.

JESSICA BREWER: In our sit-down interview with Yujin, he told us about his
experiences with Chinese food at home and abroad.

(silence)

YUJIN ZHOU: I come from China and I grew up, I grew up in a city named
Changshsa. It's the, it's the capital city of Hunan province. It has seven,
seven million people. So, it's a very large city. Yeah.

LILLIE MERMOUD: And where is Hunan in China?

YUJIN ZHOU: Hunan is like in the middle of China. So, uh, yeah. It's very close
to Canton, you know, Cantonese, something like that. Yeah. The famous Chinese
person, party figure, uh Chairman Mao is from Hunan. Yeah.

JESSICA BREWER: So are there a lot of, like, statues of him and things like that
in your--

YUJIN ZHOU: Yeah. That's true. That's true. There are some statues of Mao in my
hometown. Yeah.

JESSICA BREWER: So is there, like, a specific ingredient that's not in, like,
American Chinese food that you think makes Chinese food Chinese? Does that make
sense?

YUJIN ZHOU: Um-- I would say the way they make Chinese food is totally
different. Like, in American Chinese food, they always do hibachi. (laughter)
Like-- They cook the food on hibachis and--and they cook the rice on hibachi
too. And in China, we don't use hibachi at all. It's like hibachi is, we don't,
we don't even consider using it. And when we cook rice, it's like, we use
different devices-- than-- than when we cook food. So, so I think it's totally
different.

JESSICA BREWER: So who did the cooking, like most of the time when you were
growing up?

YUJIN ZHOU: Actually, my parents don't usually do cooking. (laughter) In my,
yeah, in my family, like, uh, my aunt actually did all the cooking. I know it
sounds strange, but that's the truth. Yeah.

JESSICA BREWER: Did she live with you?

YUJIN ZHOU: Uh-- No, she didn't live with us. But she would help cooking because
my parents didn't have time. They were, they were busy working. So they didn't
have time cooking and they didn't want to cook. So, my aunt actually did all the
cooking in my family. Yeah.

JESSICA BREWER: So, would you like go over to her house and pick up the food? Or
she brings it to your house?

YUJIN ZHOU: Uh, she will, she will collect the materials, bring, uh, bring it to
our, to my house, and start cooking.

JESSICA BREWER: So, I know that you've done a lot of travelling. Can you tell us
about that?

YUJIN ZHOU: Uh, you mean the travelling?

JESSICA BREWER: Yeah.

YUJIN ZHOU: Okay. Uh-- I went to, uh, some of travelling associated with
���ֽ���. I went to Israel and London with ���ֽ���. I also went to Japan and--uh,
Japan, Mexico, and Africa, Turkey by myself. Uh, so, yeah I went to a lot of
countries.

JESSICA BREWER: How did that, like, change the way you think about Chinese food?

YUJIN ZHOU: Yeah, I think, um-- the, the interesting thing is that, um-- like in
different countries, they all have their own style of Chinese food which is not
real Chinese food. But they call that, they call that Chinese food. So-- as you
know American Chinese food, it's that you can see it everywhere. It's- it's- say
that, it say, call themselves, call themselves Chinese food but it's actually
not authentic Chinese food. And-- this one time I- I was in Tanzania and I went
to a Chinese restaurant. And I order some food and I don't know what I eat.
Like-- (laughter) It doesn't taste like Chinese food at all but they call
themselves Chinese, Chinese restaurant. But, um, but there are also authentic
Chinese food restaurants in every country. Like in Birmingham, if you want you
can find authentic Chinese restaurant like Red Pearl, um, Black Pearl, something
like that.

LILLIE MERMOUD: Well, how do you think, um, Hunan food is different from the
rest of China?

YUJIN ZHOU: Uh, Hunan cuisine is famous for its, uh, spicy and hot flavor. Um--
Like, uh, there are eight traditions of Chinese cuisine, like eight famous
different, like eight different flavors. And Hunan and Sichuan are two, uh, most
popular cuisines for spicy food. So, I would say Hunan, uh, Hunan cuisine is
famous for spicy and the spicy is different than Sichuan cuisine. Because Hunan
cuisine is just dry, dry and spicy.

JESSICA BREWER: What do you mean by it's dry and spicy?

YUJIN ZHOU: Uh-- It's, uh, we use different peppers, with different peppers,
like, um, we use the big, red pepper. And, and that's very dry and kind of just,
when you taste it, the only thing you feel is just spicy. When you taste other
kind of peppers, you may taste different things. So, that's why I say it's dry
and spicy.

LILLIE MERMOUD: Uh, what would you say is one of your favorite Hunan recipes?

YUJIN ZHOU: Uh, I would say-- I would say pork chili. Pork chili. Um-- Yeah,
pork chili is very, like, I want to say it's the most common way in China to
deal with the pork. Like pork chili came from my province, like my hometown, but
almost every Chinese, uh, ate pork chili before. So, it was a very popular dish.

[sizzling sounds]

LILLIE MERMOUD: Hunan cuisine has typically been very different from Sichuan
though both are characterized by using very spicy flavors in their foods, um,
usually from chili peppers that were imported during the Columbian Exchange in
the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. Um, Yujin is right to point out that
Hunan cuisine has a dryer spice to it than Sichuan cuisine. Uh, Sichuan
typically uses much thicker sauces and tries to aim for a balance between sweet
and salty and spicy at the same time, whereas Hunan has been described as just
packed full of spice without as much attention to culinary balance, um, although
both are known as part of the Western Chinese cuisine that as a whole is
characterized for its spiciness and flavorfulness.

JESSICA BREWER: Soy sauce is a condiment that we're all familiar with,
especially in Asian food. Soy sauce was created by the Chinese but popularized
by the Japanese. Originally, the sauce was more like a solid paste, which
transitioned to liquid base in the mid-eighteenth century. Mary-Ann Tebbens,
author of Sauces: A Global History, states that a preference for liquid
condiments over semi-solid pastes emerged in the seventeenth century in China
and coincided with the shift to soy-based condiments from those made from meat.
As a result of Chinese invasion and cultural dominance, Tebbens also states
vegetable-based soy sauce gained popularity in Japan at the same time as
Buddhism and the vegetarian diet. The earliest known record of the word shoyu,
or soy sauce, in Japanese culture is in the fifteenth century and the term is
borrowed from the Chinese word for soy sauce, chang yu. Soy sauce continued to
evolve within Japanese culture. In this way, soy sauce is a common condiment
with an imperial past.

[sizzling sounds]

JESSICA BREWER: Pork chili, um, specifically the recipe that Yujin prepared for
us, includes two tablespoons of soy sauce, two- two teaspoons of salt, half a
cup of oil, half a pound of pork, two small bell peppers sliced, and rice that's
prepared separately. It takes about twenty minutes to make. Um, you cut the pork
into small chunks and mix it in, and mix in one teaspoon of soy sauce and one
teaspoon of salt. You have to let that sit for about twenty minutes. Yujin said
this- this was very important because it gives it kind of a pickling taste,
which is very important, um, he said, in Chinese cuisine. And then you cut the
bell peppers into slivers- slivers. As I stated, it takes about twenty minutes
to prepare. First you heat the skillet and pour in the cooking oil. While the
oil is hot, you begin frying the pork. You fry the pork thoroughly until it is
cooked and then place the pork in a separate bowl nearby. It's very important to
dry off any excess oil. Otherwise, it will negatively affect the flavor. Next,
after you've cleaned off the skillet, you put in more oil and begin frying the
bell peppers. When the bell peppers are cooked to preference, mix in the
previously cooked pork as well as the remaining teaspoon of salt and soy sauce.
Um, this is a very important element of cooking that we didn't know about
Chinese food previously, because the pork is fried twice. And when you're done,
um, and everything is prepared to your preference, you serve the dish over rice.
We're here at Yujin's house in Homewood, I think. And he's, we're going to be
cooking pork chili, right Yujin?

YUJIN ZHOU: Yes, that's right.

JESSICA BREWER: Okay. What are you looking for?

YUJIN ZHOU: I'm looking for-- (cabinets opening and closing) Wait a second. Yeah
I'm not familiar with the kitchen at all. (laughter)

JESSICA BREWER: Yeah, Yujin, this is the first time Yujin has ever cooked in
America. Maybe you should ask your roommate where it is.

YUJIN ZHOU: Yeah.

(laughter)

(Yujin Zhou talking to roommate in Chinese)

LILLIE MERMOUD: Is that what you were looking for?

YUJIN ZHOU: Yeah. That's what I was looking for.

JESSICA BREWER: Yujin has just spent five minutes looking for the spatula. Pork
chili, um, specifically the recipe that Yujin prepared for us takes about twenty
minutes to make.

[cooking sounds]

JESSICA BREWER: What is, what is it-

[cooking sounds]

YUJIN ZHOU: At this time, I will cook the pepper, green peppers, first and then
I will, uh, put the pork inside with the pepper. And then I will but some salt
and soy sauce again. Then the dish is ready.

[sizzling sounds]

JESSICA BREWER: I think Yujin is planning on cleaning up later.

LILLIE MERMOUD: Alright, well everything is on the table and everybody is here
to eat.

JESSICA BREWER: Yeah, I think it's good.

[musical interlude]

JESSICA BREWER: How did the meal that we had with Yujin compare to Chinese food
in America normally?

LILLIE MERMOUD: Well, I think that I was comparing it to our kind of
stereotypical image of Chinese food. Like I said, I expected a lot thicker
sauces. And regardless of what's done in China or not, um, I think that's the
vision that a lot of Americans have of Chinese food. It's very flavorful
usually, you know like sweet and sour sauces or spicy sauces, um, as opposed to
kind of the very light sauce we had with Yujin's food. Um, and I think part of
those misconceptions that we have about Chinese food is, is maybe because
Americans aren't as educated in authentic Chinese food as maybe other cuisines.
But also, um, according to Chop Suey, the book that we read for class, um--
Chinese food has historically responded to stereotypes that Americans have, um,
so that it will sell better. And it's, it's actually pretty brilliant. Um, you
know, make something the way that people think it will be because it will meet
all of their expectations and it won't raise any suspicions, especially if
you're introducing something that is considered to be very foreign. Chinese food
is something that we're, as Americans, fairly familiar with, um, and that we
just don't know as much about it as we could. And even, you know, for Chinese
people preparing it for us, there's different variations according to where
they're from, or what their own tastes are, or whether or not they've cooked in
the past.

JESSICA BREWER: And I think it's definitely an extension of imperialism in
general, like Japanese imperialism that had to do with the spread of soy sauce,
Chinese imperialism, like, why is their food so popular in America, like,
another world power? I think it's just all very interesting in how cultures and
economies intersect.

[musical interlude]

LILLIE MERMOUD: Thank you for listening to this episode of Birmingham Eats with
your hosts Jessica Brewer and Lillie Mermoud.

[gong sound]

JESSICA BREWER: Did you like learning how to cook? Like...

YUJIN ZHOU: Yeah, I love learning how to cook. It's very interesting actually.
It's like painting or making some artificial works. Yeah.

JESSICA BREWER: You think making food is like art?

YUJIN ZHOU: Sort of, that's what I feel when I make Chinese food. Maybe when you
make American food it doesn't feel that way. (laughter) I was kidding, I was
kidding.

[credits music begins]

CLAIRE DAVIS: Our podcast theme is by student Kerry Joiner. Today's podcast was
produced by Jessica Brewer and Lillie Mermoud with Yujin Zhou. The introduction
and credits are by Michelle Little and Claire Davis. This is a ���ֽ���
Traditions and Oral History Recordings Initiative production. For more history
on ���ֽ��� or our program, visit our page on the ���ֽ��� website or
follow us on our Facebook and Instagram at ���ֽ���_Stori, and on Twitter at
SU_Stori.

[credits music]

[typewriter ding]

Audio Information
Attribute	Value
Repository	��ֽ�� Oral History Collection
Accession	SUHist/STORI/006

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