Latin in the Motto

Published on September 10, 2018

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"Again I often see it translated 'Forever,' you know, 'For God, For Learning, Forever,' but one of the clever things about doing something in Latin is to have this kind of word play. . . giving you something to think about, and so the 'aeternitati,' if you look, if you just look at a translation and say, 'For God, For Learning, Forever,' you might miss out on the fact that it is very deliberately crafted to say 'For eternity.'"

Chapters

Introduction: “For God”

Dr. Lyle Dorsett recalls his conversion as a teenager on the ��ֽ�� football field in East Lake.

Play Segment

“For Learning”

Dr. Rod Davis recalls a student letter that showed the deep impact that a liberal arts can have and how the humanities can spark change.

Play Segment

“For Forever”

Dr. Randy Todd explains the subtlety of the Latin word “aeternitati” in the ��ֽ�� motto.

Play Segment

Transcript

[HARWELL GOODWIN DAVIS: He stated that he had been appointed to suggest a
president for Howard College.

EUNICE ROGERS: And so there was a lot of industry in Bessemer when I grew up, a
lot of progressiveness. However, it was still a typical, small, Southern town.

OLIVER BARREAU: To be perfectly honest with you, um, I didn't know what Alabama
was until I set foot in Alabama.

ELIZABETH SLOAN RAGLAND: I was not greeted by hecklers. I was greeted by Martha
Ann Cox.]

MICHELLE LITTLE: Welcome back to Sam.wav. For this inaugural episode, we are
celebrating ���ֽ���'s 175th anniversary. We are going to look at some interview
clips that highlight ���ֽ���'s motto -- For God, For Learning, For Ever. There
are lots of students and faculty that have walked this campus the last 175
years, and it was hard to select three stories that exemplify ���ֽ���'s mission.
Everyone that has walked on this campus has a story, and we here at the ���ֽ���
Traditions and Oral History Recording Initiative like to collect and share these
for further illumination on our university and its place in history and in
people's lives.

CLAIRE DAVIS: Before we get too much farther into the podcast, we are your hosts,

MICHELLE LITTLE: - Michelle Little -

CLAIRE DAVIS: -and Claire Davis. A good starting point is the ���ֽ��� seal. If
anyone studies the ���ֽ��� seal for any period of time, they are likely to
notice three Latin words hovering above the lamp and book in the center. These
three words, Deo Doctrinae Aeternitati, mean much more than their direct
translation of "For God, for Learning, For Forever". These words are a promise
to students, a reminder to alumni, and a point of reference for faculty of
���ֽ���'s aim as an institution. So, Michelle, what was your inspiration for
this podcast?

MICHELLE LITTLE: Okay, so, when I started thinking about that this is ���ֽ���'s
175th celebration -- we started in 1841, 1842 -- I wanted to find some
interviews that personified what ���ֽ��� was all about. And of course, we don't
have interviews from the 1800s, so we started looking at the mission statement,
or our motto, For God, For Learning, For Ever, and I wanted to find interviews
that exemplified those ideas. And I really started thinking about the organic
nature of ���ֽ���'s history and that it's not just the history of an
institution, of buildings, of. . . that it's really a history of the people that
have made up the university since the 1800s. And I've seen that throughout our
research. And so we started looking through the interviews, and we found things
like an interview from someone who was just walking by the football field on the
East Lake campus and heard a revival going on and heard the Gospel for the first
time. And we found another interview of someone that had been a student here and
then went on to teach and have a profound impact on a firefighter in New York,
and then he eventually came back here and became a dean. And then we have an
interview with the chair of the classics department and how he did research to
have a correct form of the Latin for the motto. So there's just so many people
who have made up the university and that have then gone on to impact the world
in greater ways. So that's how I see our history, this organic nature of the
people who have come through here and have then gone out into the world, and I
think using the motto to look at these different interviews of the people who
have made up ���ֽ��� is a good way to celebrate our 175th.

CLAIRE DAVIS: In 1841, the growing population of the relatively new state of
Alabama called for more and more places of higher learning. And this is where
Howard College stepped in. Howard was actually organized by the Alabama Baptist
State Convention in response to the positive reaction and rapid growth of Judson
College, a Christian women's college near Marion, Alabama.

MICHELLE LITTLE: So Howard started in 1841, and they stayed there until 1887,
when they decided to locate to East Lake, Alabama, a community that's just
outside of Birmingham. Once there were comfortably established there, Howard's
reputation as a Christian-minded school spread throughout neighborhoods nearby
and influenced many families and children like Dr. Lyle Dorsett. Dr. Dorsett is
now a professor here at ���ֽ���'s Beeson Divinity School. Originally from the
north, Lyle felt like somewhat of an outsider in the 1950s growing up in a
southern community like East Lake. He kept to himself, took walks through the
neighborhoods, and worked at the local movie theater a few blocks from Howard
College's campus. In this following clip, Dr. Dorsett recounts a memorable walk
home from work one night that changed his life. We are about to learn that
two-point conversions aren't the only kind you find on a football field.

LYLE DORSETT: I had been up on 1st Avenue North changing the marquee at the
movie theater. So it's middle of the week probably. I think we may have changed
it on Wednesdays. I don't remember for sure. But I'm walking home and I decided
to cut through Howard College just because I enjoyed walking different places,
I didn't have to be on my bicycle and I think I didn't have a
driver's license yet (I think I was 15). And I am cutting through Howard
College and the football field had a big tent on it. Now, I was born and raised
a Lutheran and when we moved to Birmingham, we joined First Lutheran Church
which is on Highland Avenue downtown and I was confirmed at First Lutheran
Church. And I had never seen a big tent revival meeting and that's what this
was. I had no category for it. I walked up, here was this big tent on the
football field and there were people on benches sitting in there and there's a
guy up on the platform preaching, and it was just kind of
an interesting happening for me so I am standing outside the tent and I am
listening to this guy. I still remember that he was a really sharp dresser. He
had on a sport coat and trousers and he had on a sharp tie and shoes and he's
pacing up and down on the platform preaching and he's a Baptist evangelist. I
didn't know that. I didn't know what it was. But he's preaching on the
prodigal son. -- Well, this, for some reason, well I know now what it is, the
Holy Spirit was preparing my heart to hear about Jesus, but I'm listening to
this guy so he said, "There are prodigals here tonight and I want you to come
forward and in a few minutes we'll have some music and I'm gonna ask you to come
forward. You need to come back home." And I knew I was a prodigal. I wasn't a
particularly errant kid. I mean, I was like any other 15 year old boy probably,
but I would not go forward because I wasn't inside the tent. And I
thought, "Well I can't go, I'm not part of this group. Then he said, as he
finished and some people went forward, he said, "If God gives me one more night,
I am coming back tomorrow night and there are some prodigals here tonight that
haven't come forward and if he gives you one more night, I want you to come and
I want you to come up here and give your life to Jesus." -- Well anyway, I
didn't go forward that night but I waited for the next night, and I decided I am
going into that tent whether I am invited or not. Nobody cared, they were
happy to have me come in. Like I said, there were a lot, there were older
people, but there were a lot of Howard College people. And I am sitting there
waiting, and I don't even know what he preached on the next evening. But what I
knew is that he was going to have that invitation again and I was ready to go
for it. When he had it, I went up. And he prayed with me and he laid his arm
around my shoulder, he prayed through with me, I invited Christ into my life. I
had never done anything like that. And I knew that when he was praying with me
that something was happening to me. It was an experience unlike
anything I had ever had. It was a deep experience. I sensed the presence of the
Lord and you might write me off as some sort of a hopeless mystic, Evan, and you
can pray for me, I knew at that moment God was calling me to preach like this
guy was. And I prayed after everything was over. He talked to me, he talked to
other people and he, somebody was with him and they were getting information. He
said," Now, have you been baptized?" I said, "Yeah, yeah I was baptized as an
infant in the Lutheran church." "Well that doesn't count! No, that doesn't
count. You haven't been baptized." I look back on that and smile. I don't agree
with him, but that's alright. So anyway, uh, he said, he wanted to know where we
went to church, and I told him we went to First Lutheran in Birmingham. That
didn't count either, really, so he wanted to help us get connected so he had
someone from Ruhama Baptist Church, which was right near the campus. And
somebody did contact us, and I was baptized in that church, and so were my
parents, because they had never had a believer baptism. So the three of us
became very active in Ruhama Baptist Church. My father even was asked to be a
deacon in the church. He and the pastor were very close. The church was full of
Howard College students, I remember that, because I was in high school. And
quite honestly, I was always keen on these freshman and sophomore college girls.
I remember saying to my mom, "You think I'm old enough to ask one of them out?"
and she said, "Well, you probably could. I don't know that they'd go," and so I
had sober second thoughts and didn't do that. But, uh, no, it was a good church.
My parents became greatly committed to the Lord there.

CLAIRE DAVIS: The Christian influence on Howard College wasn't just present in
large events, like tent revivals, but it was also present in the small details.
Dr. Dorsett remembers an experience in the school cafeteria that caught him
off-guard and left a huge impact in his life. [11:05]

LYLE DORSETT: The Howard College community had a profound impact on me. I'm a
young teen, I'm, as I said, I'm already, I always thought I was older than I
was, and so [laughs]. But I would sometimes go into that cafeteria and eat. And
what I, I had never seen anything like this before, but I watched the men and
women students pray before they'd eat their food. I'd never seen anything like
that. And it impressed me that there was a certain piety -- and I don't mean
that in a phony way, but these people were pretty serious about their faith.

CLAIRE DAVIS: Howard's presence throughout Lyle Dorsett's life is one of many
examples of Howard's firm commitment "For God" in its history. It is one thing
for a student or faculty member to find evidence of this promise on campus in
their own perspectives, but when the surrounding communities take notice of the
atmosphere, there must be something special going on.

MICHELLE LITTLE: From the beginning, ���ֽ��� has focused on maintaining a
community that is innovative in teaching, learning, and research. Even during
periods of war and hardship, the school remained a place of learning for the
community around it. In the Civil War, when the dormitory became a makeshift
hospital for the Confederate Army, a few faculty members stayed on campus and
taught the soldiers, teaching approximately 150 soldiers during the war. As the
World Wars and the Great Depression rocked the nation, the school did its upmost
to remain open, starting a V12 program during World War II and saving the school
from closure. A prime example of the school's steadfast commitment to teaching
comes from Dr. Rod Davis, a former Dean of the Howard College of Arts and
Sciences. He witnessed this innovative learning community firsthand as a student
at Howard. In this next clip, he shares his ideas about the importance of
education, especially through the liberal arts.

ROD DAVIS: But, but, there are reasons for a liberal arts education that
transcends the immediate kind of, um, training that goes on in professional
schools, and that is, that's a lot of things, but it's a heightened
sensitivity-- uh, to others that you develop by reading literature that
makes you identify with people in various situations and so on. It's, a, a
breadth of knowledge of the wider world, and so, there, there is an enormous
amount that is beneficial in just the enrichment of the person, uh to having the
variety of exposures in arts and sciences, that breadth will give them. And
frankly, most of the other deans, uh, would chime in on that.

CLAIRE DAVIS: Before his time at ���ֽ���, Dr. Davis taught at John Jay College
in New York City, an institute designed for policemen, firemen, and other such
public offices to add to the standard training necessary for these jobs. There
he got to put his beliefs into practice, teaching officers from a core
curriculum similar to the nearby Ivy League schools' as a way to "widen their
world". While the work seemed daunting, Davis found the whole experience well
worth the time and effort on his part, especially after a touching encounter
during one of his first years teaching.

ROD DAVIS: So one guy wrote me after he graduated, said "You gave me a C, which
is probably what I deserved." He said, "You may not remember me, I sit, sat in
the back row, and so forth." Ah, (coughs) but he said, "You read us, or we read
a poem, uh, called "Disabled" by Wilfred Owens, about a guy, uh, whose legs had
been shot off in World War One." And it's about, he's being rolled out onto a
terrace to take in some, scenery in, peace and quiet, and, but now the sun has
gone down and they've, they have forgotten that he's out there. And he says...
"Why don't they come? Why don't they come?" With-- He talks about women who used
to, you know, look at him when he came into a room now turn their eyes away.
And, uh, so he said "Well," he said, "I took that poem back to the firehouse.
And I passed it around and they guys and I, we talked about it. And the upshot
is, this Saturday, we are taking 35 guys from St. Alban's Veterans Hospital
to a Mets game." And he said, "And you read us another poem that says 'poetry
makes nothing happen.' Just wanted you to know, that poem's a lie. (laughter)
(sigh) I wish I'd saved that letter because it was, it was a very warm
affirmation you know, that, uh, people's--horizons expand and they, they better.
So that's, that's generally the argument, if we have to make one, I think.

CLAIRE DAVIS: This one instance of a firefighter having his perspective widened
through a liberal arts education really illustrated for Dr. Rod Davis the
importance of a liberal arts education in all walks of life. Similarly, ���ֽ���
University in the Howard College of Arts and Sciences has always emphasized the
liberal arts' importance, especially in its core curriculum and the later
addition of the classics program in 1998 under President Tom Corts.

MICHELLE LITTLE: In the following clip, Dr. Randy Todd, head of the classics
department here at ���ֽ���, discusses the history behind our school motto and
his involvement with rewriting it.

CLAIRE DAVIS: . . . How much input did you have as the Classics chair on the
motto?

RANDY TODD: I think they were interested. They had very strong feelings about
what they wanted, so the previous motto was "Deo et Doctrinae," are you aware of
that? Probably not.

CLAIRE DAVIS: I wasn't, no.

RANDY TODD: "Deo et Doctrinae," "For God and For Learning." And the president at
the time, Dr. Corts, wanted to add the idea of "For Forever." So I know
sometimes it's translated as "For God, For Learning, Forever," but it is
deliberately not that ���ֽ��� is going to last forever, but that it is for
eternity, and that is what they wanted to say. And he had a background in
Classics, which is one of the ways that I wound up here to begin with, so he,
he, he had, it was pretty soon after they had decided to start a Department of
Classics and they hired me. So, so I think he called me up because I know I
talked with him about it and said, "Look this is what we want to do. We want to
look at this, and what are the possibilities?" So I had to, you know, I had to
ask them, you know, make some suggestions, talked about some different words,
some different ways we could do it, and so to that degree I think I was, you
know, part of the conversation. Specifically they were looking at it for someone
who technically could handle what they were doing, and so I, I was happy to put
that kind of input in to it.

CLAIRE DAVIS: Dr. Todd also elaborates on the intricacies behind the Latin of
the motto, explaining the thought behind using the word "aeternitati".

CLAIRE DAVIS: What sort of insight can one get knowing the Latin, do you think?
Is there more knowing the Latin rather than just hearing the English, or. . .?

RANDY TODD: Yes there is because, so, so this would be part of the conversation
that the conversations that were happening, and of course Dr. Corts knew that I
cared a lot about higher education and about the mission of ���ֽ���. And that is
probably one of the reasons why we talked about it a good bit. So the previous
motto was "For God and For Learning," and so for example, the word "Doctrinae,"
you know some people would translate it "doctrine," and so it is a specific kind
of learning. That is one of the words we talked about. So we talked about some
other possibilities, "paideia," another kind of education, and he liked all
those other words. He liked the idea of having the idea of "Athens and
Jerusalem," "God and Learning." But, but he also liked the tradition of
"Doctrinae" within the church. And he knew that Alabama Baptists appreciated
that, and so that was one of the things that he wanted to keep. That was one of
the discussions we had. More importantly, I think it would have to do with
"aeternitati." Again I often see it translated "Forever," you know, "For God,
For Learning, Forever," but one of the clever things about doing something in
Latin is to have this kind of word play or these, we'll say riddles, but these,
you know, giving you something to think about, and so the "aeternitati," if you
look, if you just look at a translation and say, "For God, For Learning,
Forever," you might miss out on the fact that it is very deliberately crafted to
say "For eternity." So you've got, so we removed the "et." It's no longer "God
and Learning." It's "For God, For Learning, For Eternity" or "For Forever" for
the purpose of that. And you know, not silly enough to think that ���ֽ��� would
last forever, but it is our part of something bigger and some part of something
eternal.

MICHELLE LITTLE: ���ֽ��� plans to keep its promise for years to come. With
record-breaking enrollment, high rankings in publications and newspapers, and
the rise of teaching awards among faculty, we are preparing to open a new
chapter in university history. As the campus celebrates 175 years of operation,
students and teachers alike are looking to their roots as inspiration for the
future.

CLAIRE DAVIS: Thanks for listening! Next time you tune in, we'll be showcasing
undergraduate research interviews. Until then --

BOTH: Make waves!

MICHELLE LITTLE: Without the work of interviewers and transcribers Bryan
Kessler, Chase Trautwein, and Evan Musgraves, these histories would have been
lost. Thank you again to our interviews and faculty who make this initiative a reality.

Our background music and theme music was composed by ���ֽ��� student Kerry Joiner.

Our cover art was designed by the ���ֽ��� graphic design department.

The interview with Dr. Lyle Dorsett was conducted by Evan Musgraves, the
interview with Dr. Rod Davis was conducted by Bryan Kessler, and the interview
with Dr. Randy Todd was conducted by Claire Davis.

Today's show was written and hosted by Claire Davis and Michelle Little.

This is a ���ֽ��� Traditions and Oral Recordings Initiative production. For more
information on ���ֽ��� or our program, visit our website at
oralhistory.samford.edu or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter.

Audio Information
Attribute	Value
Repository	��ֽ�� Oral History Collection
Accession	SUHist/STORI/001

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